Welcome to the Add IDEAS podcast. Hello, everyone. Today's episode, we are joined by Pumla Dlamini, one of my inspiring leadership friends who has done quite phenomenal work, not just professionally, but also outside of her interest and her passion. Welcome. And thank you.

How are you?

Hi, Bandile. Thank you so much for having me. And hi, to your listeners. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity for being able to contribute on your platform.

Thank you. We are so excited to learn about so much that is happening right now. You know, we are in a year of change, 2024. Happy new year, by the way.

Thank you. You too. You too.

We're in a year of change. And a lot of things that emerge now is what type of leadership do we need, What type of leadership do we want to see? Not just transforming the world of work or the transforming the world of opportunities. What would you say is the top thing that you are looking forward to in terms of leadership?

I think leadership impact is leadership that is kind. It's leadership that wants to share, that really has a heart for people. I think, unfortunately enough, especially in my career path and also just with with home and seeing how my parents, you know, also were just contributing, you know, to leadership within being a steward and just an instrument to help effect change in their community. I think leadership that really is impactful is a leadership that is kind, a leadership that's sincere. They say each one, teach 1.

And so if you climb up the ladder, you must look back and try and bring others up and do so authentically, do so with kindness, you know, and people believe in your your leadership and your vision, and they grow with you.

Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm. And and you've talked about, like, influences. Mhmm.

Who are the people or what what influences you to be inspired to lead or to be inspired to do a change that you wanna do in your life?

So I think, you know, I think there's a lot of purpose in leadership. And that that purpose, you know, would normally stem from either experiences where maybe you've been led by someone who wasn't kind. And if you get the chance to to lead, you then choose to lead with kindness or maybe had a leadership that was very results driven, but not really people centric. And, you know, I've I've been exposed to both. You know, I've had my fair share of managers or leaders who are very results driven, but not quite people inclined.

When you draw from that experience, it's just to say that when you have the chance to, I'd like to do it in a different way. So I think the people that have sort of contributed to that ideology is just some of the people I look up to in the industry that I'm in. I'm talking like very impactful women in in corporate who will have the time to sit with you either with a coffee to just give their input on what their journey has been. And, you know, it's just so impactful because they're doing great stuff already. And if you see yourself as a woman of color and you're talking to a woman of colour who embodies this leadership that you aspire for, I think, you know, without dropping any names.

Yeah.

But just genuinely, you know, within this career trajectory, it's just women of impact and also just, you know, the men who have come through and and lead with with with people at heart. I mean, just yesterday on LinkedIn, I was looking at profile of a man. I believe his name is, Tutuga Nmado, you know, from Swaziland. You know, he's just he's leading up, you know, the operations of KFC. He was first leading up in Africa.

Now in the US, and then you just look at his journey. He talks about impacting people in an organization, but just impacting from from a place of heart, from a place of caring about the people. And he's garnered enough support because people believe in his leadership, and now he's just he's making waves.

Yeah.

So it's just, you know, when you see those sort of, like, those bread crumbs, those trail of an impact that looks at people and just really nurtures a person. Yes, then you get the output. Yes, then you get the excellence, but at the heart of it is the people.

Yeah.

So I've been lucky enough to to been exposed to to leadership that that frames it that way.

Just to borrow from your words, how uplifting people along with you, you've now seen almost like a play for the past 30 years. I've also been reflecting about what 30 years of democracy means. You've seen almost a play of not rising making people rise to the economy prosperity that was promised, to a dream that was promised almost in 19 94. And we talk about the power dynamics shifting ever so slightly to to people who need them the most Yeah. And power not being shared with.

Yeah.

You know? What would you describe also your journey as well relating to that About you are also working towards sharing that power now.

Absolutely.

You have started something that is quite exciting about, going back into the educational route. How how how how important is education in terms of inspiring the next generation?

So you you give me a lot of credit. I am in the process of starting. So I am on the journey of starting, this. And and and what this is is just basically a vehicle where I would like to be able to assist. It is my dream to assist from an educational point of view.

My community, at least, you know, give an impactful change in Swaziland where we can give tutoring support for kids in underprivileged communities to help them achieve the best that they can be in work and also just, you know, from a self confidence point of view. Because sometimes you just find the break where person can be very, very good, you know, writing the exam, writing the paper, passing, but not being able to also sell themselves. So just that mix of supporting from an educational standpoint, but also supporting just from a holistic point of view. And where this is coming from is that through my company where I work, I joined an, an organization called Fly. And Fly is basically fun learning for youth.

And what this is is where on Saturdays, we'll have a group of tutors allotted to each grade on a rotational basis. We go in on a Saturday, so you apportion 3 hours in your day from about 9 in the morning till 12 PM, and you teach math. You you you teach math. You choose the grade that you're teaching. So we currently have maths and a law on offer.

We have, you know, a few tutor numbers. So we're trying to gain more, but it's just it's just that giving back. It's young professionals all working, who are doing this of their own volition and their free time and free will with the hope of wanting to give back. We put some time aside on the weekends and we tutor these kids. And now just also to see the way with which they grasp the concepts better.

You know, if you have someone who teaches it differently or someone who will take the time to see that you're not quite getting it because your logic for it is wrong. And then after class, we can sit with it. And, you know, it's refreshing to see that when they get the concepts, they have that, ah, you know, that light bulb moment. Exactly.

Yeah.

So I think being part of that, it ignited in me, a desire to want to do the same in my country. Of course, you know, as far as scales go, it'll be small scale because this is something that is really in its infancy stages. It is a concept at the moment I'm starting. I've already put fingers out to try and get it going. I'm excited for the journey and I think while I still do the work that I'm doing with fly, this will be my 2nd year with them.

I am growing with my group because I started with grade 8. Now I'm going to grade 9. I'm just excited for the learnings, how I can then conceptualize and really put into a framework something that I hope to impactfully, you know, start in Swaziland. And I'm I'm excited.

Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, life skills are so understated, especially when you're in school. You know, the important life skills of self talk, seeing yourself in the in the frame of success. It's always, like, mind boggling because I remember that that that disconnect when I went into varsity.

You know, you get that cultural shock, like, whichever life is now different. How, you know, like, it's so that those phases of learning are so critical because not only do we wonder about what we're gonna achieve after, I say, high school. What do you want people or the kids to learn and to master in terms of those life skills that you are imbuing on them?

Yeah. As you ask me this question, I'm just thinking about, you know, some of the kids who we've just recently gotten our matric results. Yeah. While there's some kids who have done very, very well, there were some kids that went to life to see their results. Mhmm.

You know? So sometimes it's just it's it's it's it's it's that sort of thing that you get to learn in life skills. Those to equip you that, you know, sometimes in life will be different and life will change in front of you. I can just only imagine the kids who were friends with these individuals who either over the holiday had a freak accident, can't now see their results. Now you're registering to go to varsity and you have to be of a certain state of mind to tackle the year.

But how do you the year when you're feeling so broken? It's it's it's in life skills where and we were just funny enough having this discussion with some friends and tutors that to say, in as much as life skill isn't something that you really get accredited for in varsity. But it it doesn't underplay the value of it. It's a safe space where you you can get to interact with kids, things that they're probably not comfortable to talk about at home or not comfortable to talk about with an adult. Even an adult maybe who's an aunt or an uncle that they can confide in.

But now they can have a space in a classroom or in any sort of community forum where among peers, they can discuss about their social challenges and they can do it in an area where there's no judgement. And so in those moments, they can share harrowing stories like this or or know or maybe even hear of stories like this so that they can understand that these things happen, what sort of avenues you can use to heal if you do need it. Like I've mentioned, you know, grief because these things are happening and outside of school and outside of, you know, trying to pass your maths or your physics or your science to get into varsity, There's this life element that we we cannot help but look at because life stares you in the face. And what can you do? So it's just I think, you know, that that life skill element, you know, being able to yes.

While we are helping the kids, you know, attain their goals and have a brighter future, it's just also important to equip equip them for life.

Mhmm. Looking at grief, how is your relationship? Why do you think grief could be a value add? Because, I mean, death is part of life. Yeah.

You know, it's unavoidable, but at some point you've all lost a loved one. You know, how do you learn from grief? What are the go to pivotal journeys that inspired you to emerge stronger from that?

Yeah. So, so grief.

Yeah. Very heavy.

I forget which movie they say this is. I grief my old friend or the darkness my old friend, but it just, you know, feels like a synonym, you know. Like you say, no grief is a part of life. For me in my personal journey of grief, I've just come to learn that grief teaches you that there's a balance to life. Mhmm.

It's a very hard lesson to learn, but you learn that there's a balance to life. Just like how, you know, the sun has its chance to rise and the moon has its chance to, you know, bring, you know, to bring about darkness as it were, you know, rules over the night somewhat, but there just needs to be a balance for this. And I guess from my personal, you know, journey of growth is I've learned that resilience has to be the answer that you have to grieve. Grief will come at you as a flood, but you have to have resilience for it. And I guess the best example that I can draw on, actually the two examples, because they really impacted and changed my view of grief.

So I had tried to attempt my CFA. That was my doing my 3rd attempt, in November of 2021. I was meant to write. So this is the 19th November. And, you know, I had experienced the harrowing loss of my mom on the 2nd November, so literally just 2 weeks before.

And when I tell you that I had this very militant study routine for 6 months where, you know, if I'm working, you know, I work throughout the day. And then at night, I'll go and I'll do a gym session between, half plus 5 to about 7. From half to 7 till 9 till 10 every day, I'm struggling. It's during the week. On a Saturday, I'll have 6 hours.

So had a very militant routine preparing for this day. And 2 weeks before that, you know, air was knocked out of my lungs. Just, you know, everything that seemed that was my plan just completely went out of sync. And I I had to go through that and and I remember thinking to myself, I'm I'm not going to defer it. I'm gonna continue with it.

But, you know, I just I'm studying in tears, you know, how how how do you prepare for that? You know, it's it's the last thing I ever thought would happen when I started that year and, you know, had my goals, you know, ready for the year. So I wasn't sure what grief, what I'm supposed to learn. I didn't know what the value add was of grief at the time. Mhmm.

Fast forward to 2 years later, last year, you know, my my my my dad was battling cancer and, you know, it was another blow again. You know, you start the year feeling like okay, and you're gonna put all your effort into what you've planned, and you're going to give everything you can for. You know, you've got your last parent. You just, you know, everything that you ever do is for them, for him, to make him proud, and also to make sure that you attain your goals. And I'll never forget this moment where I had a really great opportunity at work to, chair a forum on a topic of interest that I'm that's really near and dear to me about sustainability.

And, I mean, thought leaders in in in this area, you know, were were called upon and asked to to contribute to the forum, and it was a great turnaround. And so 3 months worth of work that was put toward this was just finessed down to, like, you know, mic check. Everything was just, you know, every presentation good. And then 19 minutes, literally 1:9 minutes before going live, you know, lights, camera, action, get a message on my phone, you know. My my dad's in ICU and all his wife was completely shut down.

Sure. And, I had 19 minutes where I gave myself 5 minutes to cry as much as I could in the bathroom, compose myself, go out there, do the one the last checks, mic checks, and then give about a very, very good forum. And it it went well. It was excellent. And then right after that, I was on a flight going to see my dad, you know.

So it's just I didn't know what journey grief would give me. Mhmm. But in the quiet time with the festive and just reflecting, reflecting on just this very close series of loss. My brother also, you know, having my eldest brother having heart failure on the 6th September 2022. So it's like year after year, you're having this loss and, you know and I'm and I'm sure many people can, identify with this.

I'm gonna come from COVID. You know? People are losing, you know, loved ones left fighting center.

You know?

And so but how do you continue? You know? So grief makes you realize that there's a part of life that needs to be tenacious, that needs to be resilient. And you you can't learn this except to go through it. And and in it, you have to just remember that, you know, while there is grief, life is also beautiful.

So let's live with what we can. And where you can make an impactful change, do it. Don't waste the day. Don't waste the year. Don't waste the time.

If there's something in your heart, if there's something that you hope to do, do it. Put your foot back into it, and and it will work out. Somehow, it will.

Yeah. And and how is that, like, almost engaged your self talk? Yeah. How you view yourself

as

well in in in the world of change? How how is that relationship been like in the in this sequence of events?

Yeah. I yeah. You know, you you go through life not knowing that you're gonna have that loss

Yeah.

So close. Mhmm. And, you know, and that was something that I really feared. You know? I I'm I'm a very, you know, family oriented person.

Like, I really, really love family, you know. And so when all of that changed, I was just like, you know, what I knew that, you know, what life was about, what centered me is just given way right beneath me. So what has changed or at least what I've learned from that is the worst that I ever thought would happen has happened.

Mhmm.

And so because the worst has happened, all I can be is live with my full self.

Mhmm.

Anything that I'm scared of has happened. I've I've I've I've lost the people that I love and the ones that I have, you know, my siblings, I'm going to we're going to love with all that I have and and appreciate the moments every time. Mhmm. And so it's given me an appreciation for time. It's given me an appreciation for life.

It's given me an appreciation for legacy. It's given me an appreciation for the the moments that culminated to big memories. I just I just have a newfound respect for, I could say, life and just resilience, really, and bravery, having the courage to do to do what you what you hope to do with with conviction. I feel like almost the grief has given me purpose to live if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. And willingness

to live.

Yeah. And I think also part of the willingness is the journey of remembering the legacy, as you said, like building on what has been left behind. What are the, some of the legacies that you are inspired to live up to, or at least build up?

So, my parents have had a very big influence on me because for all my life, I've watched them. I've watched the work that they've done. I've watched how they impact their community. And so what has a legacy that I would love to be able to propagate is just to continue in that vein. My brother has been saying of late that he is his father's son, and he's about his father's business.

And so I am also of the same sentiment that, you know, I am my mother's child, and I'm of my mother's business. My mother was someone who would, you know, create parties for orphans every end of the year for Christmas because, I mean, orphans have got no one. So I remember, you know, my earliest, memories of that would be between high school time even, you know, during varsity when I go home for for holidays. She she would have these parties, and it's like, you know, we we we we're we're in the kitchen. We're catering.

We're, you know, you're you're you're interacting with other women in the community. We've come through to to give their time and their hands to contribute to such events, you know, caring for the the community, for for the children, you know, that don't have parents and just any donor aid that comes through, she would be someone who would also just want to be able to call and say, guys, here's jerseys for the winter. You know, she was just always doing that kind of work. I'm being very heavily supported by my dad as well. Mhmm.

So I think and this is where my my my my desire, my hope, and my plan to have this impactful educational, change that I'd hoped to do through this tutoring initiative that I'm hoping to bring about is just to continue in that legacy, you know, to give back, to to have a positive impact because, you know, truly, the the children, are our future for tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. What a beautiful what a beautiful encapsulation of a legacy. And I think now it's hard to now step into leadership. I mean, you've been fortunate to, like, for example, as you say, despite the the the calamity around the events

Mhmm.

Of the timing of the opportunity, You've been fortunate to be presented with opportunity to lead. Yeah. Looking at back when you were invited, when you were coming up into the ladder, how does that reality feel? Do you feel like when you're invited, you knew it's like, I wanna be a leader. I wanna be this.

I wanna do that. Or how has that transformation worked?

Yeah. I definitely, you know, especially, like, when you're when you're, like, a young person, like, in high school, you have big plans for yourself. You're in varsity. You're like, I'm doing it, you know. Hey.

But at some point, varsity was just, like, too much. I was just like, I'm just trying to get through

Yeah.

This degree. Get money. You get this money. Yeah. And so I've I've always relished the opportunity to be a leader, not knowing how I would would get there.

If I'm being very honest with you, I didn't know how I would get there. I didn't know the plan ahead of me. I just had all I had was just the purpose. I I always all I had was the desire for it because I see the purpose in it. It.

Mhmm. And like I say, you know, being modeled by the people that I've seen right in front of me as I grew my parents. Mhmm. It's just something that I felt like, you know, should I have the opportunity, I'll put my full my my my full force into it. And and like you say, I mean, just having been, afforded an opportunity in leadership, I think.

I just would like to be able to execute it with with with heart, really, and with kindness. I think the most impactful like I said, the most impactful leadership is the one that is people centric, that is kind, and that, you know, yes, we are trying to collectively achieve the goal. But can we collectively achieve the goal of the thoughtfulness that there are people behind who are rallying us to this goal? There is no leader without the people. True.

Leadership is null and void if there's no people behind it to back you or, you know, there's people that you can work with. So I just yeah. I'm I'm looking forward to the journey and I didn't know I would get here, but, you know, taking over every opportunity that I can to do whatever I'm given, do the best of my ability with, and then just, you know, just do it with conviction. Mhmm. Not half assed, really.

Do you know? You didn't start to stand out. You need to stand out to be seen as a person who has the potential to lead you. You'd be you're seen as someone who people can partner with because they actually wanna see you grow. And I think it's it's just being like I say, those little bread crumbs where you can see the example or you've had leaders that have impacted you in that way, you then start to emulate your own voice in it.

That if I should be a leader, this is how I would approach it. This is how I would do it. And I'm very fortunate to have the opportunity to do that now.

And how what did you say to your younger self wasn't it for us? It's asking those questions about how I'm gonna lead.

I'd say we're doing okay. I would say to my younger self that, listen Yeah. Don't don't don't stress about how it would work out. Don't stress about, you know, what steps you have to take. Just just release yourself and be open to the opportunity.

If it comes, it will come because you will get to do it. You you have the gift for it. And surely, if you have a and they partner with the right people, you know, they they will bring that out to you. So

Yeah. And and and part of part of, of leadership as well, as you say, not just having the people rallying towards the goal is the impact. Yes. The impact. Yeah.

What impact are you excited to, lead towards or to have people rallying towards?

An impact of changing the lives of young people. Mhmm. I think that would be my overarching one besides career trajectory, besides, you know, anything else, but just at the very bare minimum of it. I think at the most granular level, the kind of impact from leadership that I would love to leave behind is one where you can look back and see the impact among the lives. Mhmm.

But I specifically have a heart for impacting young black females, you know, I think. And it's not to say that, you know, the young man doesn't need support. He definitely does. I just feel like there's a lot of complications, you know, especially for, you know, young girl coming up. Your body's changing.

You're also trying to understand, you know, life, and you're trying to navigate things. So and then again, I guess, being a black female myself, I think I would understand and be more patient with the journey of a young black child, a young black girl. And I'd love to be able to, you know, like we say, each one teach one. As you go up the ladder, you look back. You you you bring them up the ladder with you.

And so that's that's my heart and the depth. That would be my focus in the long term Mhmm. To impact the young females out there. Yeah. In a way that I can with whatever experience they, I can share with them that they can learn from and in whatever way that we can do for them to have a better future.

So excited about that. I think now just switching gears bit about growth, part of changes growth, you know, in as much as it's quite painful to grow. What would you advise people who want to growing into different stages of their own life? What are the key, key lessons and what are the tips and tricks that you unlock for them?

I thought just always be open to to learning.

Mhmm.

And I know sometimes that sounds very open ended, but sometimes very great and deep concepts can be only summarized in that way. You really just have to be open to learning. If you don't know, put up your hand and say I don't know. It takes humility for you to know. Mhmm.

And you can never say that you know everything. Mhmm. Because especially we're living in an ever changing fast paced environment. There's, like, discoveries happening, extraterrestrial. There's, like, rockets being, you know, set

up these days,

their eyes here. So there's just so much that's changing. You can never really say that you know it all. Mhmm. So if you're just humble enough to learn and just also just being able to know that if some things are outside of your hands, you just you have to just learn how to go with the flow and see what works for you.

You know, it makes me think about a very simple prayer that my dad used to like, which is to say, give me the courage to change the things that I can and, you know, the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, then the wisdom to know the difference. Like, should I I should be able to know the difference of what I can change. And if I can change it, let me have the courage. Let me have the bravery to affect that change. And where if I cannot change anything and it's outside of my hands, give me the serenity to accept it.

Mhmm. And so and then also just the wisdom to know the difference.

Mhmm. Yeah. It's been I think I've known you, like, in in the shortest amount of time that I've made you, actually, like, 2 years, I think. Yeah. This

is the 2nd year.

This is the 2nd year. Yeah. I remember our first conversation. I think we were at a certain coffee spot. And I remember thinking to myself, wow,

you have such a powerful presence.

Like you had a powerful presence. It's like memorable. Okay. This person has a voice. Like, the voice is very there.

Yeah. How did you come to master that that presence?

Sure. That's a very powerful question.

Yeah.

That's a very, very powerful question. I think the best way I can answer it is to say, you know, failure will humble you.

Yeah.

And, you know, you know, when you get to that point of humility, you're just like, actually, if I can ask for help, let me ask for help. And let me also not be afraid to say I don't know. Mhmm. Because if you're trying to turn a failure around, you need to be able to be that humble and that willing to work. And so if I can give example for it, so in grade 4, so this example actually underscores my passion for what it is I want to start doing in terms of and this is why I'm also involved in flat.

So in grade 4, I failed grade 4 because in SUASA system, if you fail

if

you pass everything but fail English and maths, you repeat the grade. Or even if you pass everything, including English but fail maths, you fail grade. So I, you know, got to that grade grade point, didn't do well on my maths. There was a consensus for me to go to grade 5. But I remember on the 1st day that I started grade 5, the headmistress came to me, and she's like, you know, you're in grade 5.

Do you feel that you deserve to be in grade 5? And imagine asking a kid. Sure. Yeah. I'm about 10 years old.

I'm just like, okay. Deserve. Well, I guess I I don't. She's like, oh, okay. So, would you go back to grade 4?

And I was like, well, I mean, I guess. And so I went back to grade 4, and it was just I'm sure you can imagine as a child, I'm just like, oh

my gosh.

Demoralized over here.

My straight friends. Like, you know? You know? And so then I had to go for extra lessons for the subject that I, you know, done so poorly in in math. And I met this tutor.

She was, like, the the the maths teacher for the higher grades. So from about grade 6, grade 7. Her name was missus Decov. I can never forget missus Decov, a Bulgarian teacher. Her family moved from Bulgaria.

They were in Swaziland. And she would she would teach these these these math classes off to school. And when I would learn in in her presence, I started to realize that, you know, maths actually isn't that hard. I just need someone who's patient enough to teach me the concepts And

who understands that.

And who can teach it in a way for my young mind to understand it. And so having gone through that failure and having to go through that mindset so, yeah, to just really understand that, look, this is for me. I'm trying to change it, and I'm going to put as much effort as I can. I cut down on my sports, went for more of the lessons, and then within 2 months, I turned an average of 43% in March to 78. They were happy to promote me to grade 5.

So within that same term, I then ended the term having gone back to the grade, grade 5 that I, you know, had been demoted from. And, you know, the story goes that I've I've always been an a student since, and and that's why I actually did a bachelor of science in applied math all the way to so I just I ended up having a love for it. Mhmm. But it was that failure that changed it changed a lot in my young mind. Mhmm.

I never ever held back from saying, I I don't understand this.

Yeah.

Because you go into a class and your teacher will say, you know, do you have questions? And I would have the questions because I just said to myself that, you know, I'm not trying to fail again.

Yeah. I'm

not trying

to go through that again and

know the feeling.

You know? And so then it it then with the byproduct of that was me being vocal. Yeah. The byproduct was me being able to challenge and ask questions on a concept. Because if I really am trying to understand it and if you ask me, you know, if you open the floor for questions, I'm going to ask you questions

because I'm not trying to fail this.

Yeah. So then I just I think that's where I learned. It it it empowered me to ask questions. It empowered me not to be embarrassed. It empowered me to say, look.

I don't get this. Please please teach me. And, you know, it just it changed a lot for me. That was my growth, and that was that I think is also just, like, the the fine thread in my giving back, in my being involved in flying, in what I'm hoping to achieve. The legacy, it also ties into legacy.

Mhmm. So it it just feels like a full circle moment and just a real opportunity that I'm just very humbled to just, you know, to really, really do. And I'm excited about, actually. Yeah. Yeah.

So I really hope to on

that journey.

Thank you. And I really hope to end the year having started something. I know you're gonna be my accountability partner. So I'm excited for the journey. Yeah.

It's gonna be a good year.

So what are the milestones that you're setting up for for this year? Right? So you've said accountability number 1, kindness

Yes.

Impact. Yes. What else do you wanna measure yourself come the end of the year? Happy new year.

Yeah. I I I I want to have less procrastination. I'm very intentional about having less procrastination. And to be less to to procrastinate less, you have to be intentional about doing work. So And

your time.

And your time. Yeah. Exactly. So so I that's that's another thing that I'm looking forward to end the year off on a note of no procrastination. Mhmm.

Just, you know, close your eyes, go into it, and get help when necessary. Because it's only when you start a thing and you put your hand up and say, look. I need help. You'd be so surprised the people who'd rally behind you.

Yeah.

You know, especially because if you're doing something that's so meaningful. And people have already started that journey. You can have learnings from them. You can have, you know, just, you know, a wisdom. Those who've gone the part before can show you how to navigate it better.

So Mentors. Mentors.

Yeah.

So, definitely. So I'm I'm I'm definitely looking forward to that. Yes. You know, leadership with impact kindness, but definitely one that's also proactive. So less procrastination, really accountable, and just, you know, going in there and just going in for the win.

Mhmm. Yeah.

As a catch 22, what are you learning about this year?

I'm learning to listen more. Yeah. I'm learning to listen more.

And how is that going? Look.

I mean, I can talk

to anyone's

hair off at any point in time. So it's it's it's been a real growth. Yeah. Yeah. But, I'm learning to listen more.

And the more that I am listening, I learn to listen also to the things that are not said. Mhmm. So listening to body language, listening to changing energy. If someone comes into the room, how am I feeling? So I'm listening more, listening to myself, listening to what is being said or what's not being said.

Like, I'm listening, and I am learning also to reflect as well. Reflect on what I feel. Reflect on what has been said or reflect on what hasn't been said, reflect on the purpose of what's being said. So I'm just I'm learning to listen, and my listening is a listening in layers. Mhmm.

And it really is allowing me to grow because you can't quite be an effective leader if you're not listening. Yeah. Yeah. You can't quite be an impactful leader if you're not listening with discernment. Mhmm.

Because a person would say a thing, but then the way they use their time or the way their body language is, you know, presented is very different to what they're saying. If you can hear that, that's when we start to capture that impact of of leading with the kindness that can really actually shock people and allow them to give more of themselves to you because you have noticed a thing that they couldn't say. So I'm I'm I'm learning. I'm learning to listen.

Wow. That's a powerful lesson. I think yeah. I I last time I was so honored Kindness journey of being kinder to myself, you know, in the aftermath of, I think, also losing my mom this year for, like, the 3rd year anniversary and also, like, coming from a lot of change, in my life.

I was like, well, no one's gonna be kinder to you than you are to yourself.

Yeah. You know, no one's gonna tell you the truth about how you how you should treat yourself.

That's true.

At the end of the day, people just move on. Yeah. But no one leaves backhands, like, what was done? Perhaps taking stock of what is the room saying as you're saying, listening to intention. So go to Facebook.

More listening.

Yes. Thank you. I'm looking forward to that.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm looking forward to that.

So what

are the top off trends? I mean, that's this year, we have started off with Devos. So a lot of leaders went to Devos and we've got a

forum Yes. Situations happening.

Earlier last year, our quarter was the close of last year.

We also had the COP conferences. Yes. Yes.

What are the emerging trends that you are picking up that leaders should be listening more to?

I think there's there there really is a shift that's happening, and I I'm I'm not sure if it's because of times. I I I should think it is it is it is the times, but there's a lot of shift that's happening politically.

Yes.

You know, you know, emerging markets are now becoming geopolitically. Mhmm. You know, so there's just a lot of shift. And I think I think, you know, there's there's a voice that the people are having, which I think is a voice that says we want growth and we want it now. And sometimes, you know, you have leaders who probably don't have vision, but don't execute it properly.

I mean, we've seen it with with some political parties who we announced started to, you know, doubt, especially in a time where we we want to vote. Yeah. And then you also just see this attractiveness for emerging markets. So the world is now looking to emerging markets. You know, you talk about COP, you know, sustainability is now gaining more of a voice.

Sustainability with substance, you know, that's impactful, you know, to impactfully grow communities and economies at a sustainable rate because we're also trying to be mindful of the environment. We're trying to be mindful of I mean, look at all this global warming that's happening, you know, with with temperature rising and talking icebergs are melting and just all this change and

And emissions on high.

Emissions on high. You know, so companies now have to be very mindful. They They're actually being held accountable for their emissions as well. And so these forums such as, you know, the sustainability, you know, focus that is coming to the fore now. And also, like, we talk about, you know, these, you know, political and just also geopolitical changes and shifts.

It looks like the times needs leaders who are who are results driven, but also, you know, listening listening to what's happening, listening to the people on the ground, and also listening to the times, how they're changing. And I think as we all go through this change, even even as you listen to the person, that person is learning from you and listening to you on how you're accepting what they're saying. So I think if that respect and that reciprocity comes about, leaders will be more impactful to listen better, to impact more change. And the people who that they are impacting change because they see how they're accepting the listening and the learnings, they would want to work more with leaders. So I think, definitely, kindness kindness to the environment, a kindness to the people, and just a kindness in general.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you so much for that. Because I think would you describe that, for example, in this critical year of change and crucial year of a lot of things happening, would you say we have a leadership deficit or do you feel that we have more leaders who are ready to listen more and do more?

I think it's a mixed bag. We do have leaders who are making change, in a sense where if we now think about private companies that are working with government

Mhmm.

To make change in their areas. You know? I mean, we think of discovery. I think it was last year, discovery trying to, get on a drive where for the the clients who they ensure their cars for will always complain about, you know, like, potholes and all of this. And, you know, they they they are now having a voice for saying, look.

Let's how can we be of assistance? We can apportion some money if necessary. Just let's let's pave the roads. You you you talk of what's happening, you know, with Eskom and load shedding. Private companies are now banding together to have a discussion about green energy, you know, and and just, you know, seeing how they can be, of assistance in in in that discussion in in in that forum.

So I think, it is a mixed bag. We are having a lot of leadership, especially from the private sector that are identifying the problem for what it is, being available to be the solution for it, and putting themselves out to be there, give voice to that solution. And then, you know, you you have some likes in in government that, I guess, you know, are doing okay. But, I mean, you you you're dealing with a failing or at least not encouraging security at police system. Mhmm.

Do do you still have these low incarceration rates, especially for GBV or or you can ever be. It's just shocked. You know? We've we've shocked about, you know, who passed away and who died, and since people never get brought to book. You know?

We're still dealing with cancer by USKs. Do you understand? Have we even started looking into what happened to AKA?

Do you know

what I'm saying? Like, it's just those little things to say, you know, you have these emblems where leadership is actually doing well and the kind of work that they're partnering with to say, look. We see a problem. We're offering ourselves to be part of the solution. Use us.

And then you've got other wings where it's just like, hey. It's it's another day in the office. You know, we're not gonna make any change. It's it's a mixed bag.

Yeah. Yeah. And in in in in that absence, what's filling up your cup right now?

Being the change that I can be where I am.

Yeah.

It fills my cup to be able to help where I can. Mhmm. And I think what fills my cup really long is just seeing other people do the same Yeah. In their own way. Mhmm.

The kind of work that's being done like yourselves where there's a platform where young individuals can come together and share ideas

Yeah.

Where other people are just looking to give more sort of, like, impactful growth. I mean, I know there's these sort of, like, idea generation hubs where, especially, create creatives come together. And the one that I can think of that comes to mind is just, you know, what's what's happening back home in Aussie land. I mean, I recently have come about to see where there's just these sort of groups where people come about this. You know, they they'll have an event.

They'll have, like, a thrifting shop or artists come together to share ideas on either whether it's just, you know, clothing, style, music, or just a space where they can, as artists, share ideas. So it's just just that sort of change where young people

are are

are not just sticking to the narrative or I'm going to study, get a job, and just, you know, make money for myself. There's a there's another drive of just saying we want to do more. We want to be more. We are not just

One thing.

One thing. Yeah. We're multifaceted, and we want to be able to express that in the time that we have and in our passions as well. And if we can have more people do the same, we don't know. This this could actually just start being the the change that we need.

Mhmm. The change that we need because we've got a lot of young people that have got great ideas and great passions and great voices. Mhmm. And they don't only just have to end in a corporate space. So in in a 9 to 5, there's more that can be done outside of that.

So I think that actually fills my cup to just see how these things are coming about. I have always just wondered, like, how young corporate women are experiencing corporate.

Mhmm. How is your experience

in that?

How is corporate for you?

A corporate I think everyone's, everyone's feeling about corporate is that, you know, corporate makes sure to get its pound of flesh. Mhmm. But I think while that has been my experience in my, like, career journey, I think now I'm in a place where, yes, they do want the output. They care about the person. Mhmm.

So my corporate tone, I think, has changed. At first, it was, you know, upward driven. Get your pound of flesh. You know, you race on the weekend and you're back on the ground. But I think because now I am doing something that I I I quite love and it's a passion for me.

You know, something where I think just I mean, that can't speak for everyone, but I can't just say as Africans, you know, we've always just been mindful of our environments. We've always had a a sensitivity. Yes. Yes. Sensitivity for, you know, our families.

You know? See, it's it's it's in the little things where, you know, you you you hear a person's surname, and you you know their clan names. Just that respect and that acknowledgment of family bloodlines or family and, you know, just sustainability in a sense where you always think of giving back. You're always thinking of, yes, I'm doing this, but then you will then benefit.

Well, how far is the coin going?

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And and also how how can we keep this coin among our community?

It's a generational world.

It's a generational world. Do you understand?

Yeah. So

it's it's it's it's a very interesting shift, which I think is just always going to keep one excited. And and the more we can equip ourselves if by studying further, if by making more impactful relationships Mhmm. That hopefully, you know, we can actually see this thing come to life and just be passed down where kids can see what has been left behind by having, you know, sustainable impact in our environment. And they can continue to carry that back, you know, and run forward. Mhmm.

Yeah.

And I think, like, in preparing that reality, that shift that you said, like that because I remember when I started working, I there was a big disconnect because I was thinking to myself, sure, I'm walking into this world of work. Yeah. And you see lesser people like you up the chain. Yes. You know, there's You can say that again.

You feel very invisible. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

You feel lost in the seat. And after, like, maybe your career hopping and, I don't know, job hopping and house hopping, what would you say are the key things that you'd advise people who are going to that reality of corporate, going to that reality of work? And you how how would you better to pay them for that?

It's definitely gonna be a shift. Yeah. And it really needs a mindset shift. Mhmm. And I say mindset shift because in either, like, your your your varsity curriculum or calendar, you know you're gonna have a semester break.

Going to corporate, you're not going to you

only have your late days that you that you've accumulated. So, you know, you Use them wisely. Use them very wisely because you're

not having a break. It's not gonna be a semester.

Can't go on a sabbatical.

You cannot go on 2 weeks. You have to work for that 2 weeks. So that for me was like a real shit. I won't

lie to you. And the the one that we're having semester break, you're like, oh, by the way, I'm working now. It's none of that.

9 to

5.

Exactly. 9 to 5. So, yeah, it's just it's a mindset shift. Mhmm. I don't even know if you can even do enough research to prepare for it.

Yeah. Adjusting expectations.

Yeah. Exactly. It's it's you definitely have to adjust your expectations. That's for 1. But just a mindset shift of understanding that now, okay, it's a different ball game.

It's a different structure, different principles. It this is how it works. And and as I go through it and as I try to understand myself in it because you definitely have to give yourself time to understand yourself in the journey. Mhmm. For you to be able to create.

I say you create a brand at work. Everybody does. Yeah. Whether you whether you you think about it or not, you do create a brand. Mhmm.

And your brand, I feel, if you're going to try and make a brand that you are hoping to outlive you and by outliving you, meaning that

you know career from it.

You have a career from it, but also you get noticed enough where you get spoken about in rooms where you're not there. So if you have a brand that is just very simple, you're going to be on time for work. Whatever work that you have to do, you do with the best of your ability. You do not half ass it. My motto has always been, and it's something that I've borrowed from the bible, which says, you know, you must work as unto the lord.

So if you're going to work as unto the lord, you're not going to do a half job. You're going to come at it with all that you have. And so if you can do that, of course, making sure you don't burn out because burnout really is a thing.

Yeah.

It's very real. So it's it's it's finding that balance that works for you where you're trying to give excellent output. So you're working hard because you are trying to build this brand. You do need to have your name spoken about in rooms or at tables where you cannot sit. Right?

But then would propel you on your career. But it's because of this brand that gets you noticed, that remembers that, oh, in these meetings where you cannot speak for yourself, where there's opportunities for growth, where there's even financial opportunities for people for change, that you are front and center because you've just stuck to doing the simple things consistently. Yeah. And you you're doing it with excellence. Mhmm.

That is the only thing. I think it was Obama who said it. Didn't he say? He said, you know, if you wanna get work done, give it to the one who shows up. The one who will always just keep doing the best that they can.

That that person is someone who people high up always remember, and they will always remember to speak about you in rooms where you cannot be. So I think that would be my advice. Just it's a mindset shift. And whatever you get to do, do it well. Do it consistently, and just show up all the time.

Mhmm. You cannot be the person who will choose. Yes. You can take advantage of your sick days. So, yes, okay, You may choose to call in sick, but at what cost?

What's it going to do to your brand? You have to really you have to almost have an entrepreneurial mind shift as you go into it to be like, this is how I wanna be be perceived. This is how I want to be remembered, and this is my brand. So with every any little thing that I do, I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna shoot the lights off the roof. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you believe that leaders are born or made or is it both?

I think leaders can be born and they can be made. Mhmm. But I think, you know, the I think the the leaders that, really make the change that, you know, these are the people inspired

Mhmm.

Are those whom who are born. Yeah. Because I think I think I think that that this is my personal belief. Mhmm. We are here for a time.

So if you can just think about probably, like, maybe you you'll bear with me. I'm gonna be very geeky about it. In the time continuum, if you ever rethink about, like, history and what, you know, we're hoping to achieve in the years to come, we have a specific time that we are in, that we are living in.

As a generation.

As a generation. Mhmm. And so you can only make as much change that you can within that time. Mhmm. And so where within that time, you have leaders who are gifted.

They don't have to be taught to go forward and make change. You know, we think about the young people who, went on a protest, you know, during apartheid times, which is why we now have June 16. You didn't have to teach those kids any leadership. They they were gifted with it, and they led with such a bravery, you know. And that that was them in the time, in the time continuum where they made an impactful change.

Leaders who are gifted, I feel, make an impactful change. And, of course, there are leaders that are trained that make impactful change as well. But there's just something about those that are gifted. Mhmm. There's something about those that live in indelible mark.

Mhmm. And, it really makes one one to aspire to do it more. Yeah.

Who are the leaders that I are that you're looking forward to to learning from this year? Or because I think we we placed a lot of pressures on leaders. Right? Everyone we always expect leaders to do so much. Mhmm.

What do you think what are your leaders that you're looking up to are teaching you about leadership as well?

So I may not give names.

Yeah. I

may not give names to the, like, most corporate people. Yeah. Because I sometimes like the alternative.

Yeah. So Well, non traditional.

Yes. Because this this person isn't quite a leader, but she's she's leading in in some things that impact the women in her industry. I mean, I'm sure you've seen recently, you know, Taji P. Hanson. Yes.

King Martin was talking about, you know, how, you know, in her industry, it's just like sometimes you you you want to be valued for what you are, but you just don't get valued. And then it it it it it discourages your gift. It discourages, you know, because outside of your gift, you still have to live. And if you're not going to be compensated in a way that that speaks to the value, the value of the years that you've put into your craft, it's just I I think leaders like her that speak out, you know, and says, look. You know, it it may be a glitz and glam thing, but my goodness.

There's life after this. And I I'm just telling you guys from a human point of view, this is what's going on. You know? You look at our bookette Williams that have come with

Hey. Fire. Fire.

Fire. But, you

know, it's just it's people who are who are unmasking things that we think are just glossy. Mhmm. That we think it's like, wow. You know, I'd like to get there, but they show you the human element. Mhmm.

And they're not afraid to do so. Mhmm. You know? Yes. You can talk about your Warren Buffet.

You can talk maybe even about your, which actually are doing, you know, very impactful. Having having impactful conversations that need to be had at at round tables that affect us as people of color. Those are, of course, you know, impactful peep that are that are leading a trajectory. That's very, very necessary. Mhmm.

But, you know, you also have these little pockets where there's there's there's talks about things that we thought were were gatekept and looked really good from the outside. Mhmm. But when they talk about what they're actually experiencing, it's like, wow. I didn't realize that was happening. You had a voice to say it.

So and that for me, that's a leader. That's a leader, you know, and it's just you you you you're not afraid to to to unmask and show the truth behind the thing. Those are and like I said, I mean, I wouldn't be giving you corporate examples. I do have. Yeah.

You know, just, you know, people, but it's just these are the ones that are standing out to me right now. Mhmm. Yeah. I just I can't help but marvel.

Yeah. What I also am asking you that process as well.

What do you guys to talk is important.

It is talk. You're

Hey. To talk is very important. Of course, not to talk for the sake of.

Yeah.

Talk with an aim, talk with a purpose, and and let it be structured so it can land. But the talking is very important. Mhmm. No one will know the struggle that you're going through unless you speak up about it. And you would be so surprised that people who would rally behind you.

And also just from you actually would be teaching without realizing that you're teaching just by talking.

Yeah.

Yeah. And like I said, I mean, for as long as it has a purpose and an aim, not that you're talking for the sake of talking. Yeah. For as long as it has a purpose and an aim and can affect change, then please, by all means, talk. Would like I said, I mean, we're really living in very interesting times.

There's a lot of shifts happening. And so also being able to talk is just you're basically unmasking. Everything that was hidden now comes to the fore, and then you could actually be helped by people who are touched by your story. And then that can change your destiny forever. Yeah.

So much. And, I think that's it for today. Yay. I mean, from this conversation, what are you picking up or taking with you going forward? Just the closing.

We all have something to love nature. Yeah. And we are all intellectual. Mhmm. A person who, I don't know that it is a person maybe who's like very astute in very hard or traditionally hard things.

Like, maybe you think of like a computer science or, you know, finance, all of that is no different than a person who's making change either in psychology or in countless jobs like community service. Everyone has an intellect and everyone has something that they can share. We are all intellectual beings. I mean, for the fact that we are we are spiritual bodies in an earth suit, which is what doctor Myles Munroe, rest his soul, shared in one of his sermons. He basically said that for your time on this earth to have impact, we need to realize that you're a spiritual person in an earth suit allowing you to live here.

But that spiritual element of you needs to be sharpened in homes to know your gifts so you can know what sort of purpose you have.

Mhmm.

And so then when you live out in your purpose, you will make an impactful change for that so that, you know, you can leave the legacy behind. And it it it it really moved me because, you know, it got me thinking that, you know, it's in the small things we don't realize. When we sleep, we dream. That's a spiritual thing. Even as I'm talking to you right now, I'm talking, but you can't see the words come out of my mouth.

But you can hear them. Mhmm. That is spiritual. You can be able to see. Yes.

You know, science will explain to you that, okay, light goes through the rectiline, then it flips in the back end, and then the optic nerve takes it to the brain, and then you see things. And I don't know what part sees it back and white, what part sees

it back. Everything's upside down. Okay. You know? But at

the end of the day, we can see.

Yeah.

And and and it's it's it's and and and it's what we see, which we remember, which somehow we take into our subconscious place in our dreams where we can say, oh, I saw so and so, maybe an aunt or or or or a friend, you know, in a dream. And it's just we actually are such spiritual beings that we don't realize it. So spirituality has an intellect, and so we can all learn from one another. Even if it's like the most favorite person like Einstein or the most the most basic kind of giving back like mother Teresa. Everybody within that value chain were the most, you know, high IQ or maybe not so high IQ.

Everyone has an impact

that

they can give because there's an intellect in them and because they're spiritual and, you know, everyone's a spiritual being who has an intellect. We can learn from each other. And so I think that's the one thing that I can you can never discount someone. You can never discount someone. Yeah.

Everyone has a place. And if you find your purpose, you will be more impactful, and you leave the place of you will leave the world a better place.

Thank you. I can't add or subtract anything. That has been said. Done. Seals delivered.

Thank you so much

for Thank you.

And to our listeners as well, thank you so much for tuning in and following the podcast. And please, by all means, buy us coffee.

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Get more inspiring conversations.

Thank you

so much for joining us.

Thank you for having me. I look forward to the the good work you're doing here. And I'm I'm a fan of your podcast

as well. So

I'm also looking forward to more of the the content you have to give us.

Alright. Thank you.

Thank you. And that's it. That's a wrap. Yeah. Thank

you so much,

Oh. Thank you.